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DTA for Dummies

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Re: DTA for Dummies

Post by mrbeige on Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:16 pm

dirtytorque wrote:
ctwg60 wrote:
I think it has to be DTA for all the above reasons. Hmmm. Probably go with the S80 so I'm setup for the VRT I plan on doing one day!!! Laughing




CtWG60 + VRT = Divorce.

lol!

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Re: DTA for Dummies

Post by kevhaywire on Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:50 pm

The S80 is a lovely unit and 30% smaller now. Shame they did that just after I bought mine! Mad

If you do go VRT, all it would take is emailing a map over to you and you'd be up and running! That's the main benefit of a group of people using the same brand of ECU Very Happy

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Re: DTA for Dummies

Post by ctwg60 on Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:26 pm

Very Happy Believe me I'm only considering doing it cos you run one as a daily and your happy to share knowledge and experience. I saw a thread with your latest engine bay shot the other day and i just have to do it. I'll be pretty much done with 4 pot G60's in a year or two's time anyhow, and i get bored easy! Think I'll buy a cheap golf VR to steal the engine from. Anyway that's another thread. Cool

Oh erm Nira has some sort of anti lag flat shift thingy-majig, something about holding the boost on the turbo side of the throttle valve or something.

EDIT: here's a basic description! quite interesting!

Anti Lag System (ALS) maintains boost pressure during shifts and
when letting off on the gas.
Flat Shift – reduces engine torque to enable quick gear shifts.

6.10Flat Shift
The Flat Shift function makes it possible to shift gear while maintaining WOT,
this is done by lowering the torque output when NIRA i3+ reads a signal
indicating that the driver changes gear. This is a highly advanced function
that can lead to transmission damages if the mapping and installation aren’t
performed in a correct way.
The function is activated with a digital input connected to Flatshift Switch in,
on=gnd. If an analog sensor is used the signal must be digitalized. The switch
should be mounted in such a way that it changes state from “1” to “0” when
activated. Most sequential gearboxes has a built in sensor. It’s also possible
to mount a switch that is activated when the gearstick is moved or the clutch
engaged.
When a gearchange is initiated the torque should be reduced quickly. The
torque reduction is obtained in two ways.

The ignition point is retarded x degrees

Ignitions or injections are blocked, this is named cut throughout this
document. The flag ALS/FlatShift Cut Mode sets which of them that
will be blocked. Note that the ALS function uses the same mode.

A combination of the two is also possible and often used.
The torque reduction is maintained during x ms or as long as the switch is
activated, this is described under Activation time 6.10.3. FlatShift Mode
controls whether the torque reduction is maintained for a given time or as
long as the switch is activated
To make the return to normal mode smoother the cut and ignition angle is
gradually phased back to normal. This part is named ramp up. During the
ramp up period the ignition is phased back to normal, i.e. Ignition Main
Table sets the ignition angle, and the “cut” goes to zero which means that
no ignitions/injections are blocked.
In order to make it possible to activate the function the rpm and throttle
position must be above certain values. This is done to prevent the engine
from stalling when changing gear at low rpm or give to much engine brake
while downshifting. The parameters Min Active RPM and Min Active Throttle
set the thresholds.


6.8 ALS – response system
ALS is used to maintain the boost pressure when the throttle angle is small.
This is done by increasing the airflow into the manifold, retarding ignition and
cutting ignition or fuel injection.
To increase the airflow, a separate solenoid is often used to increase the
throttle angle approximately 15%. This is only done whenever ALS is active,
which is when at least one of the values in ALS Ign Retard Table or ALS Cut
Percent Table is greater than zero.

6.8.1 ALS Cut Mode
ALS Limit Cut Mode determines if ignition or fuel injection will be cut.

6.8.2 ALS Max Active Time
ALS Max Active Time determines how long ALS can be activated. Note that
ALS is active only if at least one of the values in the Cut or Retard tables is
non-zero.
Once ALS has timed out, whenever the TPS exceeds the ALS Throttle Active
value, ALS will be re-activated.
Setting ALS Max Active Time to zero turns off this function.
6.8.3 ALS Throttle Active
ALS Throttle Active determines the TPS value which must be exceeded in
order to (re)activate ALS.
6.8.4 ALS Throttle Hyst
ALS Throttle Hyst determines the increase, in %, of TPS, which causes ALS to
be turned off regardless of the values in ALS Cut Percent Table and ALS Ing
Retard Table.
Once the TPS exceeds ALS Throttle Active, ALS will be re-activated again.
Setting ALS Throttle Hyst to zero turns off this function.

6.8.5 ALS Maximum Exhaust Gas Temperature
Max exhaust gas temp while ALS is active. For this function to work an EGTC
unit must be connected to NIRA i3+. See section 3.8.
If the exhaust gas temp exceeds the value in ALS Maximum Exhaust Gas
Temperature, ALS is turned off.
Once the TPS exceeds ALS Throttle Active, ALS will be re-activated again.
6.8.6 ALS Idle RPM Cut In
This RPM limit comes into play if ALS gets deactivated due to throttle
hysteresis or the exhaust gas temp was too high or if the ALS max active time
has been exceeded.
This prevents excessively high engine rpm if the throttle is open, the ignition
retarded and cut returns to zero.
Only the fuel cut is used since it results in lower exhaust temperature, which
is one of the main reasons for deactivating ALS.
This function uses the rpm and cut mode, as well as the RPM Limit Range and
RPM Limit Min Cut.
6.8.7 ALS Idle Throttle Lo
If the throttle position is less than ALS Idle Throttle Lo, the max engine speed
is the same as ALS Idle RPM Cut In.
6.8.8 ALS Idle Throttle Hi
If the throttle position is greater than ALS Idle Throttle Hi, the max engine
speed is the same as RPM Limit Cut In.
If the throttle is between ALS Idle Throttle Lo and ALS Idle Throttle Hi, the
max engine speed increases linearly from ALS Idle RPM Cut In to RPM Limit
Cut In.
6.8.9 ALS Cut Percent Table
This table contains the percentage of ignition/fuel injection events which will
be cut whenever ALS is active.

6.8.10 ALS Ign Retard Table
This table contains the ignition adjustment while ALS is active. Postive values
in the table result in ignition retardataion.


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Re: DTA for Dummies

Post by kevhaywire on Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:31 am

Thanks mate, for the kind words Very Happy I know you have high standards so that's high praise indeed!

I am very happy with my VRT at the moment. It drives exactly how I want it to and that's all you can hope to achieve in any project Very Happy And yep, I'll be glad to assist with yours if you go that way!

Anyway, yep flat shifting and ALS is all part of the "nice stuff" you get with as standard with a lot of standalones Very Happy The DTA has both of those features also, but ALS is a potentially very expensive feature to use as it makes the turbo and exhaust valves run extremely hot. In fact, many commerical turbos won't handle it and is why most Rally turbos are built with special MARAM turbine shafts and wheels which are made to withstand the heat. AND....your neighbours will hate you!! Every time you drive up the road, the retarded igntion when flatting and ALS'ing creates almighty bangs from the exhaust Very Happy

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Re: DTA for Dummies

Post by ctwg60 on Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:25 pm

kevhaywire wrote:Every time you drive up the road, the retarded igntion when flatting and ALS'ing creates almighty bangs from the exhaust Very Happy


Cool! Laughing Get 'em back for their nuisance dogs and b'stard loud paranoid burglar alarms!

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Re: DTA for Dummies

Post by kevhaywire on Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:12 pm

LOL!

My neighbour's kids sometimes have parties when their parents are away, so next time I'll get them back with some exhaust bangs which will drown out their sheeeeite music Laughing

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